The song openly argues against ideals of the dominant public such as peaceful governmental reform, patriotism, and elections. The song goes further and references dates and events that have specific meaning for the group, but may not have much importance for those in the mass public such as the Seattle riots in 1999, The Spanish Civil War in 1936, and the labor movements in America. The song also uses a specific vocabulary especially when the they say "They call it class war / I call it co-conspirators." They are referencing one idea (rioting) but from two different perspectives. One seeing it as the lower classes attacking the upper classes and the second seeing it as the upper class coming together to purposefully keep down the lower classes. The medium of music likewise has important implications, since the anarchists at the Seattle riots had met at a music festival to discuss their tactics. Further, the read and black have special significance to the anarchist movement. Finally, there is the very distinct possibility that this is all nonsense and was written by people who do not believe in anarchism, but just think that its cool; however, for the sake of this blog post, let's take the lyrics seriously.
Of course, one does not have to be a member of a counterpublic in order to critique the system. For example, Lily Allen is a pop singer in England, and she released a scathing critique of contemporary society in 2009 with a song called The Fear for which she won several major awards.
What I am interested in with the discussion of counterpublics is not only how a person speaking in them creates a sense of community or a worldview, but how such a speaker uses the same methods of creation as the research essay writer does. Just as Bruce Ballenger says that by "firing on four cylinders of information" writers are able to make writing that is "'authoritative' and convincing," songwriters use these forms of information to make themselves convincing. What I would like you to do is explain what modes of research were used in the creation of either song and how you can tell. Then, I would like you to tell me which song you find more effective and why.
Thanks,
Mr. Harley
Both songs use memory, experience, and observation as modes of research. Memory is shown in “Baby I’m an Anarchist” through all of the references to historical events. Experience and observation is shown in “The Fear” when Lilly Allen references the faults in society, such as when she sings “Life's about film stars and less about mothers. It's all about fast cars and cussing each other.” I really felt the message in Lilly Allen’s song was much better depicted and therefore more influential. The song by Against Me! seemed less affective because while it was obvious they were making a stance against the mass public being wrong they never really explained why. It was more like they were complaining about something without backing it up with a purpose. While Lilly Allen’s song is obviously speaking out against how society is completely obsessed with and taken over by materialistic things, she backs this statement up with showing how it forces individuals to lose their identities turning them into slaves of a faulty culture.
ReplyDeleteI will start off by saying I found "The Fear" by Lily Allen more effective. This could be just because she is more relatable with her lyrics. In her song, she uses the experience of society members before her to build her argument. It built her argument when she said "And I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless, 'cause everyone knows that's how you get famous.". To me, she is referring to celebrities who get attention by being sleazy. By referencing this, she makes a connection with her audience. Another mode of research she uses is reflection. She reflects society through her lyrics which make it effective. The first song, "Baby I'm An Anarchist!" mainly uses historical context as a mode of research. His references to the Seattle riots, Spanish Civil War, and Labor Movements of America are what make his argument strong, however, i found it not as effective as "The Fear" because that seemed to be his only mode of research.
ReplyDeleteThe modes of research used in these videos are most definitely observation, and memory and experience. These modes are closely related. In the first video, by Against Me!, it is clear that they are speaking of experience and memory. Their personal counts of the riots in Seattle and such help relay their hate for the dominant public ideas and culture. In Lily Allen's video, she is also basing her message off of experience in addition to observation. As a pop singer, she is exposed to this celebrity culture. Her lyrics portray how the public is, in many ways, unrealistic. She says, "everything's cool as long as I'm getting thinner." This largely represents our culture today as so many people go to extreme measures to lose weight because of how "perfect" is defined through media. I'm sure she has directly observed this and experienced the criticisms and ideals herself. I find the song "The Fear" more effective. It may possibly be just because I can relate to much of what she is saying. I sometimes catch myself being too materialistic and wanting unnecessary things such as shoes or clothes to define me. The song "Baby I'm an Anarchist" wasn't as effective for me because for one, the message was relayed in a lyric video whereas Lily Allen's video drew me in more simply through showing her message as well as telling it. Also, the first video doesn't have as much relation to me because I wasn't old enough, to hear or view those riots and wars and recognize the effect they had on society. It was less relevant to my personal experience and therefore limited my relation to their message.
ReplyDeleteEach of these videos demonstrate at least two of the four cylinders in Ballenger's theory. In the first video by Against Me, they lyrics and social topic are most likley from personal experience and from observation. The riots in Seattle and the differences in the culture, must have the memory and the experience to fully understand the public ideas. Lily Allen's video "The Fear", she is expressing her lyrics through her life exposer through pop culture. The second video is more effective in my opinion because people are more aware in today's society. Individuals know what that specific lifestyle is like. Not everyone can relate to fighting a war and fighting in riots. The message that I saw in Lily Allen's video spoke to me through the socially constructed world our society is known to be. Which can be seen through multiple perspectives from many individuals. Society is "programmed to be a certain way" therefore understanding pop culture is much easier.
ReplyDeleteIn the first video, the band is really seeming to express their opinion in an angry way. It seems to me that they are yelling why their opinion is right, and that everyone else should agree. The second video, she's asking questions to herself. Which she may not be able to answer, or need some help. I feel like the second video is more effective, because she's not telling you how to think or feel. She feels a certain way, and if you agree, awesome, and if you don't, it's not a big deal. Unlike the first video, if you don't agree, then something is wrong with you and you need to fix it.
ReplyDeleteBoth songs use memory,observation, and experience as modes of research. It is clear memory is shown in the first music piece because they use a lot of historical evidence, such as rioting. Lily Allen sings about society and it seems to me she sings about all the ways she can go against societies norm. Lilly Allens song is a good example of observation and experience. The first song was less affective for me because it seemed like if you do not agree with them then your beliefs are completely wrong. The second video was a lot more effective because I could relate to her lyrics more. She had more evidence how corrupt society is.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Rachel's Comment about the first video, I disagree in how they are expressing their opinion. I agree that the song has angry emotions, but I don’t think the song is supposed to sound like they are asserting their opinion and telling everyone to agree. The song seems to me that they are targeting the average citizen and how they view politics. From my own experience I feel like everyone I know is involved in politics to the extent of choosing a side, but quite often complain about the very nature of politics that they support. I feel like this song is targeting that kind of person and calling them out by mocking their support of the politics during the verses, but the chorus is about calling them hypocritical for despising politics but not doing anything about it.
ReplyDeleteI believe that both songs rely on the modes of experience and observation. In the Against Me! song he talks about historical events and Lily Allen talks more about society today. Baby I'm an Anarchist shows a counter culture in a more political way whereas Lily Allen shows a counter culture in a pop culture sort of way. When it comes to who's statement was more effective, I believe Lilly Allen's was more effective. Personally because I think her lyrics are more personal. Since she is a pop star she deals with that sort of outlook even more than we do. When it comes to her saying "everything is cool as long as I'm getting thinner". And saying "I wanna be rich and I want lots of money, I don't care about clever I don't care about funny". You can see she deals with this sort of outlook of people everyday and probably has a lot of pressure to fit in with that lifestyle too. Since she is talking from total experience, I feel that this alone makes her statement more effective. Also because it's easier to relate to a song with a sort of sentimental idea, such as fitting into the pop culture and how our society is run today. I think the first song is less relatable because it's not so sentimental, and because it is sort of all over the place. However, my opinion could be bias considering I am a 19 year old girl. Maybe it's easier for me to relate because I can relate more to pop culture and because being a girl, I relate more to a sentimental counterculture. So I may have bias, but I still think her lyrics are more effective.
ReplyDeleteThe two cylinders of information that Both of the songs use is observation and experience. The Against me! song refers to riots that happened in Seattle. They are talking about their observation on how certain people responded and who participated in the riot. They are also remembering their experience in the riot. I found their song less effective for a couple of reasons. It wasn't pleasant to the ear at all. If I heard this song on the radio, I would automatically change the channel. I'm a music snob, so I don't appreciate their singing at all. Also, the yelling is ineffective. for me, it just becomes white noise.
ReplyDeleteLily Allen's song comes from her experiences and observations from working with people in the pop industry. Her social commentary is very relate able. We've all seen people act this way. It's an honest depiction of our society. I find her song more effective because she isn't yelling her opinions at us. Her music style reaches a bigger audience. More people listen to pop, and she has a nice singing voice, so more people enjoy listening to her.
The cylinders of information that these songs are using are observation, experience and memory. For example in the "The Fear" she refers to stars taking their clothes off to gain fame, and this reference shows that she has observed and experienced shedding clothing as a way for famous people to be put in the lime light. In "Baby I'm an Anarchist" they use memory, experience, and observation in the sense that they refer back to actual dates in history. In using these methods the song writers are convincing because they seem to know what they are talking about and by referring to specific events it makes them more adaptable to a specific counterpublic. I felt that "The Fear" was more effective because I could relate to it better, because the other song was very angry and was talking about anarchy vs. liberalism which are things I can't relate to as easily as the things that are talked about in "The Fear". Also I feel that pop has a broader range of listeners therefore it is easier for her to get her message across because she has a larger audience, and also pop would be considered more "mainstream". I feel that pop would be considered a part of a larger counterpublic than punk.
ReplyDeleteBoth artists I think used memory, observation, and experience in their songs. Memory is used in the first song by referencing certain historical events and historical figures such as Bush. They also talk about rioting by singing about throwing rocks into a Starbucks window. Both songs use observation of the world around them. Lily Allen talks about taking her clothes off to be famous because that's what she has seen from the world around her. Both of the songs also use experience because they have experienced different things in their lives that have made them feel the way that is expressed in their songs. I think Lily Allen's song was more affective than the other one because a lot more people can relate to it. She took a more subtle approach whereas the other band was sort of in your face. Of corse I do believe I am biased because the sound of Lily Allen's song appealed to me more so I was more willing to listen to it and understand what she was trying to convey.
ReplyDeleteI believe both songs actually used all four cylinders of information: memory/experience, observation, reading and maybe interview in Lilly Allen's. The memory is obvious in "Baby, I'm an Anarchist" especially when it talks about the presidents Nixon through Bush (excluding Clinton, which I thought was funny and ironic). Was it because they were republicans, or because they were not the best of presidents, then again they excluded Clinton and he is a democratic and liked in the public's eyes; also they were all late twentieth century presidents? In Lilly Allen's video she talks about experience I believe throughout her career, in the video it says something like "[as long as I'm getting thinner then its much better]". And weight is something that is constantly brought up with celebrities, and they are criticized and ridiculed about it....until they actually do something about it (look at Jennifer Hudson now and then and how bad they talked about her). Lilly Allen's video dealt with pressures and fears of this society. In each video they did their research, in the first video I am quit sure they were not alive during the Spanish Civil War (they could have been, however sounds like a bunch of college students bored). In the second video she talks about Life being more about film stars and less mothers, she could have done her research and observations in magazines or even just looking outside. The most effective video is Lilly Allen's though. Maybe I'm being biased but I enjoyed the video more plus it had a catchy tune...which I think the general public would think so too because it is part of the pop culture and it is what we are used to seeing, also it seems more organized.
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that research was done to write the song, "Baby I'm an Anarchist". This song uses historical events to put forth an argument. The language and tone in the singing of this song definitely shows the band as being passionate about their political stance. Although "The Fear" did use some cursing, the tone seemed a lot more mellow. The song itself was more enjoyable for me, which ultimately makes it more effective. This should come to no surprise, as peoples opinions tend to sway towards those that they like. I am more likely to listen to my friend, compared to my high school chemistry teacher. Looking at the lyrics, I definitely feel that I agreed with all of the points that Lily Allen made. She basically explained how our society it starting to revolve around looks rather than the personality of a person. On the other hand, I don't completely agree with all of the lyrics in the "against me!" song.
ReplyDeleteListening to both of the songs, they use different techniques to explain point of view. In the song, “Baby I’m an anarchist”, the band uses historical events to get his argument out to the public. During the whole song, he is screaming to the listener. By him doing this, it makes it seem like you have to agree with what he is saying and if you don’t, you’re totally wrong. In “The fear”, she is using a different approach to get the audience to her what she is saying. She is talking about how the upper class and how you need to have fancy things and look apart to be accepted. She is just saying that here’s what I believe in, take it or leave it. In my opinion, I strongly think “Baby I’m an anarchist” was more effective. Them yelling during the song makes it seem like they strongly believe in what they talking about and that they are right.
ReplyDeletei believe that Lilly Allen's song is more effective due to the fact it brings up points that a lot of individuals come in counter with, meaning that todays society is strongly based on the looks of people especially in the celebrity world. i didn't find "against me" to effective because not very many people no about the anarchist movement, although they did use historical event to strengthen there argument.
ReplyDeleteThese two songs are very different in nature, but similar in content. The first song "Against Me" referenced a few riots that happened in the past so their acounts are based on memory and observation. I didn't find this song as affective because firt, I am not familiar with the events they talk about and second, I don't like that type of music. Their argument was well supported though and their views were clear. In Lily Allen's song "The Fear" she recalls things that happen to her and around her so it is observation and experience. I like this song a lot because it is more relatable and I like the style. She talks about pressures from society and how she doesn't understand them, but she will go along with it to be happy. I like the sense of ignorance in the lyrics because most people like to not think of themselves as consumers, but as more independant. I like the message that is being sent out and think it's effective.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal view of both the songs, I like Lilly Allens version a lot better. She made it a lot more relatable. The song Against Me just cam across to me as if he was complaining the whole time. His was more memory and observation, where as Lilly Allens was more perspective and observation. Lily made her song easier to listen to, her song was much ore influential, and her point came across with a much clearer perspective and it didnt just sound like complaining. Lilly's song speaks about how our society today is way to obsessed with materialistic things. She makes it much more relatable to todays society she talks about a lot of things a lot of us encounter. Not many people know about about anarchist so he didnt make his song very relatable.
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